Jeremy Julian
Jeremy Julian
restaurant, people, podcast, industry, chef, important, started, pandemic, longtime listeners, business, create, cook, little bit, build, business model, technology, jeremy, mindset, paying, investment
Jensen (75%), Jeremy (24%), Intro (1%)
I
Intro
0:02
This is the restaurant technology guys podcast, helping you run your restaurant better
JJ
Jeremy Julian
0:13
Welcome back to the restaurant technology guys podcast. I think all our listeners out there for continuing to join us as we post these, these episodes, it’s always fun to get new episodes. And as longtime listeners know, I really have been enjoying the last probably two years because we changed up the the format to really be interview and I just get to be a student and listen to different people and get to hear their stories. Now some cool questions, which, from my perspective, and the way that that my brain works is really, really awesome. And then I end up going and doing more research about those things and hopefully provide you guys with some value. So today is not a whole lot different. I got introduced to Jensen, I don’t think on the Internet somewhere. Some I don’t know if we came across each other. Ironically, we were we were in the same part of the world for a long time and never ran into each other. I guess it’s the power of restaurants. But now we’re together via the power of the internet. So Jensen, why don’t you? Why don’t you introduce yourself to our audience. I’ll tell them all a little bit about who you are. And then we’ll get into the topics for kind of how how how you did what you did and why you guys have been doing what you’re doing over the last few years.
JC
Jensen Cummings
1:17
Yeah, thanks, Jeremy. And I appreciate what you said about being a student. That’s absolutely one of the most important things for me is the ability to ask questions. And listen as much as we talk as podcasters our ability to ask questions and listen is actually the superpower. So I appreciate hearing that. And yeah, I’m 22 plus years in the industry and my family legacy goes way way back fifth consecutive generation of chefs restaurant tour hospitality professional family, we opened our first restaurant in 1900. In Little Falls, Minnesota called Lafond house. Only seen pictures straight up looks like one of those corner saloons where Wyatt Earp would have shot somebody out front, right, like that kind of style place. And then migrated over there was a couple generations in San Francisco. And then my dad’s three younger brothers, oh, what’s the count now? Maybe six restaurants, seven restaurants across three different states. And so got into the industry, you know, through them, right. I think a lot of us could ask, When are you going to get a real job? My family’s been successful, whatever that means for you in this restaurant industry. They’ve been added. Maybe it’s just that we’re gluttons for punishment. We’ve been at it a long, long time. So when I was 17, like you mentioned, we’re st part of the world and North County, San Diego when I graduated high school, fumbled my way through that and went out to Ames, Iowa, talk about a culture shock there, right? Yep, college town, Iowa State is there. My uncles have had kind of a bedrock there since 1984, when they first opened restaurants there. And so we’re talking 2000. And I go out there thinking, I’m just gonna go have a summer job, hang out, hit on college, girls, whatever that might be. And I found the kitchen. And the first day washing dishes with a pile of dishes was as tall as me, I had no idea how I was gonna get through it, I just felt all of it. Right. And as somebody, I think a lot of your listeners will kind of reflect on this and maybe connect with this, you know, we never quite fit in anywhere until we found restaurants for a lot of us. And I really felt that I was never as smart as the smart kids are never as cool as the cool kids. Of course, I told myself, I was cooler than the smart kids and smarter than the cool kids. The reality is like when you find that, that restaurant space, it like really speaks to you. There’s there’s this sense of belonging and purpose that maybe a lot of us didn’t have. And also you’re you’re young 17 Right, like, you’re not becoming an investment banker at 17. But so many of us are getting into this industry. So I think that a lot now that that we’re elder statesman of the industry and it’s our job to really usher in and empower and educate the future leaders of this industry. So you know, ran the gamut. I did you know, line cook then I started kind of excelling went to culinary school started working for some name chefs and James Beard award winners, some master chefs kind of that caliber is what I wanted to be at and ended up you know, chef at 2425 way too young and dumb but super ambitious restaurant owner first at 29 Going into 30 way too young and dumb to do that, but it was was willing to make those sacrifices and kind of bring that about was the chef owner got all the accolades won the awards, won the competition was on TV and this and that, and then turned into the cliche burnout. I couldn’t I couldn’t hold on to that monster and a lot of it was me and the situations that I created for myself. I know I want to talk about that more as we go. But then got into strategy and consulting work and now we have three companies we have an angry all of consulting that strategy and consulting for mostly new concept development, as we believe in kind of building the new models. And we also have best served, which is marketing and media, we produce a couple of shows best serve podcast is done, coming up near 500 shows who the pandemic’s have been really, really out there trying to be a voice trying to learn, as you mentioned. And we also have restaurant Idea Factory collaboration with Kyle and Sarah from the national restaurant owners podcast, as well as Sean Walsh chef who’s got a restaurant influencers, podcast as well. Who I’m like, out of breath is that oh, and we have we have a event production company, if that wasn’t enough, which obviously has been a little bit on hiatus over the last few years. But
JJ
Jeremy Julian
5:45
that’s, I mean, that’s a lot. And at the same time, I’m thinking to myself, I’m thinking to myself, Well, I think that there should probably we should probably go create, like some Reddit um, I guess it’s probably out there some Reddit or some slack channel for like, you know, former restaurant people that have gotten out of the day in and day out, you know, for like therapy or something that might be a whole nother business that we could figure out because
JC
Jensen Cummings
6:05
that’s what the show was at first. Right. So like, I started the besser podcast as a way to almost like, repent, right, like I needed to give back to an industry that gave me a lot that took a lot for me, that I imparted a lot into and I took a lot away from as well. And I had to, like grapple with that. And I think that’s important for us. And so I literally started on my phone with like a call center headset. Half the time I was in the parking lot of my gym with hoodies hanging around me, there’s a great video of me, you know, exposing how low budget it was. It was audio only. To start out I talked to somebody you know, notable in the industry friend, whatever it might be. And then they were required to introduce me to what I called unsung hospitality heroes. I wanted to know the dishwasher, the line cook, the first culinary school instructor, the, the sous chef that like was meaningful to them that most of us never hear about. And we did 37 episodes. And then we go right into March 15. When everything starts shutting down. This is November 28, November 18 2019. I started 37 audio only podcast episodes, right, just like you do. And on my phone on Anchor, that’s all, you know, teaching myself how to edit. It was horrible.
JJ
Jeremy Julian
7:22
Well, I know we talked about a pre show no editing, because, because that that might be the worst part of podcasting. I don’t,
JC
Jensen Cummings
7:29
anymore. Whatever I say whatever we talk about, that’s what it is. That’s what I meant to say, no matter if I meant to say it. And so, and then, march 18, I was supposed to have another show. I was like, I can’t keep just doing this show. I have to do something else. People are really in pain, struggling. And you mentioned therapy. I was like, I need to hustle and communicate. That’s the only thing I know how to do in a moment like this. So I went live on Facebook on March 18 2020. Like the worst. I mean, I had like, horrible camera, horrible sound, horrible lighting. And I went live every single day for almost six months. Wow, we produce 200. And something something in every day, seven days a week, a lot of times I was doing two shows a day anything I could talk to people, what are you doing what’s happening? How do you get PPP loans? How do you apply for unemployment? Anything I could do to try and communicate for our people out there was was important to me. I mean, you know, you got to do what you got to do to like, stay connected to people. And I think that’s something that’s really compelling for a lot of us in hospitality. We need that camaraderie we thrive on it. Sometimes we, I don’t know make it more than it is. And we say it’s a family. It’s a this this, that it is a business. They are co workers. It’s not a family necessarily. But we want that sense of belonging. And I think that’s the thing that we conflate sometimes, because that sense of belonging is really important. And I think we’re struggling with that a little bit now,
JJ
Jeremy Julian
8:54
as well, especially with just the changes. I mean, you know, I think we talked about, you know, you and I’ve been in this industry for a long time. And I think that there’s been more rapid change within what we do in this last three, four years than ever before in my entire career. You know, between I can, I mean, I can tell you just from the pure technology front and any of the longtime listeners know that the acceleration of adoption of technology, the acceleration of third party delivery, the acceleration of text to order, you know, all of that has just gone through the roof. I mean, it’s accelerated some of that five and 10 years ahead of what I had forecast because of the pandemic and so and so it’s funny that you did that I again, it’s amazing to me that you know, I guess this is such a large industry that for so long we were living 30 Miles 40 Miles away from each other and never had run into each other but now we get power of
JC
Jensen Cummings
9:45
the internet man, ya
JJ
Jeremy Julian
9:46
know, it’s pretty awesome. It’s freaking awesome. I love it. So you and I talk pre show a little bit about angry olive and kind of what you guys do there. Let’s dig in a little bit to that why new brands why new concepts? Talk to me a little bit About that, not just from the perspective of, you’ve got some battle scars that you want to help people through. But there’s also the flip side of it that having known you just for a little bit as we’ve gotten to know each other a little bit, I know that you’re passionate is really to help people do better than you did to stop making those mistakes. I don’t watch people succeed. So talk to me a little bit about what the idea behind that where that came from? How do you pick the clients that you guys are work with? Where does that go? Yeah, I
JC
Jensen Cummings
10:28
think being an example. And a cautionary tale is important for a lot of us to be able to hold that weight. And so that’s important to me. And so, you know, a lot of the consulting work that I had done, which truly what I was, was a subject matter expert, who was consulting, right, I had a big paradigm shift where I was like, I can’t be the chef, who’s a consultant, I need to be the consultant, who was a chef, right, and there’s a, there’s a big mindset shift that’s a little bit difficult for a lot of us, because we’ve been able to grind through every problem. And when you have to create something that you pass on to somebody else, it can be really difficult. So I kind of had that understanding. And I remember the day, the exact day, I’m gonna tell you this story, because it’s really important understand, cuz there’s a lot of people in the industry that are kind of not sure what’s next for them, not sure where they stand. And so I remember summer of 2013, I was in this transition, I just gotten out of a restaurant deal where you know, love these partners, but we didn’t have a shared vision, very important. If you’re getting into a partnership, shared vision is really crucial.
JJ
Jeremy Julian
11:35
And written down and written down that shared vision. down when sorry, I don’t mean to cut you off. But I think that all too often, you know, you say this is where you want to go. But the truth is, is until it’s written down, you know, it’s hard to hard to go back to it’s all like you finish I
JC
Jensen Cummings
11:51
know nothing apologize. That is exactly right. I want this to be as actionable for your listeners as possible. And shared vision that is written down in a clear Partnership Agreement. 1,000%, we are scared of lawyers, that a lot of times will be the best relationship. You have somebody who can look at that loi and your lease, somebody can look at your partnership agreement, you make sure that that is ironclad 100%. And I appreciate you slowing us down on that, because I think it’s important. And so I was kind of what do I do next, you know, and I was doing a lot of like, pop up events I was I was traveling the country doing some different things getting invited to cook here. And there, I was kind of just like writing that little bit of celebrity that so many of us chefs had kind of in the early 2000 10s, right. And so I was cooking at this event, and everybody is patting me on the back and telling me you know how pretty I am. And the food is amazing. And all this stuff. And of course my ego is loving every second of it. And amazing event had a ton of fun cooking with chefs. And of course, we’re drinking too much like we always do. And I drive home and on my way home, I get pulled over. And I have to do a roadside sobriety check. And at that moment, I’m just like, I’m another cliche chef, restaurant professional with a DUI. How did I get here? And I pass, and when when that officer looked at me and said, you passed, and he gave me a look like but I know that you know that I know. And I want you to get home safe right now. And I go and I just I’m stone sober at that point, obviously, Scared Straight in that moment, like how did I just get in and out of this situation. I get home, I walk in the back door. And there’s a pregnancy test. And we are positive pregnant for our first kid. And it was in that moment. I’m like, the entire emotional roller coaster of what it means to be a chef to be in this industry, to be an idiot and to be you know, your way through to figure your way through it all happened to me in a mere matter of hours. And in that moment, I said, I have to do something different. I can’t just be the chef who goes through the motions. And so at that moment, I knew I need to do something different. And I was like, I want to be an educator, I want to be a teacher I love my favorite part about being a chef was not that I was a badass with a knife or anything. It was always being able to impart wisdom. And so I was like, I need to do that and package that. And so I started do and I had done some small things and many consulting stuff here and there writing a menu never really valuing and understanding the value of that. I tell everybody like you need to make sure that you’re not charging hourly if you are going out there and doing menus because you should get paid for your experience and what’s in your mind not what you can create with your hands. That’s a big mindset shift for us right? And started like you need to be charging like $500 a dish. And that’s not just to write down a clever idea. It was all of the deliverables that went into that At now I have a lot of people that come to me and I was like, here’s what you need to do. And so it started growing and growing from that. And I recognize that when I worked in restaurants, I always wanted to know how everything worked, so that I could be better out the thing that I was doing. So I was a bartender, I was a server, I was the general manager of tag restaurant, a notable restaurant, I was the Chef de Cuisine, we are struggling with the continuity to be in front of house and back a house. So I went and was the was the general manager for for two, three months, and really coalesced us and said, I’m just gonna go out and do that, because I believe in the value of the whole restaurant. And so I started to be able to bring that together. Well, then, fast forward some years of kind of going through that and kind of being a solopreneur. I hooked up with my partner Andrew Parr really, operations financial guru can put any crazy idea I have into a spreadsheet and make it work. And so we started to really strip down the industry to its core, the business model to its core, we restructured a restaurant p&l and operating budget, something like we had never done before, we had just copied and pasted the same template for years and years and took all of these prime costs and your occupancy percentage and your food cost and your labor costs. And just said this is the industry standard, we realize the industry standard sucks. It is not built for the success of most restaurants we needed to reimagine that. We also at this time, one of the most crucial things that I recognize is I was not a good enough leader of taking care of my people in the way that I should have and the way that they deserved. And so I needed to figure out new ways to build in what is the investment model that we believe in for people we call workplaces worth working. And we invested in wages, benefits, culture and education, the four buckets that we believe you need to have in a restaurant to be able to have a dynamic team to be able to not be quote unquote, short staffed because kids these days are blah, blah, blah, like we had something different. And so we really started develop that and same thing, we built what we call the WBC builder wages, benefits, Culture, Education builder, how do you actually increase wages? When the current budget that you have, there’s no room for it? Everyone’s like, there’s no margin, you’re right, there is no margin in the current business model you have, we have to actually fundamentally build a new business model, which is very difficult for a lot of us old dogs who’ve been like, Well, look, how successful were we were with this old model, it ran its course it burned hot, steep trajectory, it’s been exposed, it’s no longer viable. So what do we do now?
JJ
Jeremy Julian
17:39
Well, I It’s funny that you bring a lot of these ideas up, because multiple people, I just I think it’s an interesting industry, because there’s very few industries that exist out there in the world today that have been around for 1000s of years, but have operated the same way for 1000s of years that haven’t had directly innovate, the hotel industry has had to re innovate the the vacation, you know, Disneyland that opened in 1950s, doesn’t look the same as Disneyland exists today. But the same pub that I went to in England, that opened in the 1400s, or wherever the hell it was, it operates almost the exact same way with some of the same expectations. And it’s so interesting to hear you say that I think back about some of the other operators and some of the other consultants that I’ve had on deconstructing, whether it be food cost, or labor costs, or the way that you staff, your dining rooms, I’m, the pandemic has forced some of that. And then at the same time, I love that you guys have got this group that you know, can go in and help people to understand this. Because, as you say, you could probably go Google labor models for restaurants and find 1000 different templates that are just a copy from the same frickin one. But they’ve never re evaluated, nor do they quite frankly, look at the existing existing operating costs. You know, I’m now in Texas, in California, it’s very different. You guys just went to what 1515 $16 An hour, something like that the beginning of 2023 for minimum wage, that’s not to say that that’s what everybody’s paying people. But that looks very different than a tip credit state that might still be paying people three or four bucks an hour, you know, in tip credit states to be able to operate. And so why do you think that is? I guess, is it? Is it just the fact I mean, because we’re old enough to have seen it the old way and have watched people continue to re innovate. We watch people succeed. You noticed 1000s of restaurants that figured it out, and went back and succeeded. And then we watch other brands that we love that never found their own way out of their own success trap. Why do you think that is?
JC
Jensen Cummings
19:42
Isn’t the worst when there’s like some shitty restaurant that just like is bulletproof and never closes and then a great restaurant in the corner like they can’t, they can’t make it. There’s something really challenging about this industry. And there’s a couple of things I’m gonna throw these out there just and we can pick up and run with maybe a couple of these but there’s A lot of things that play into number one is really the mindset. You think about the the characters that that find their ways into restaurants, myself, you and you know, a lot of us are outcast, misfits for days and pirates on the pirate ship, right. And we find restaurants very young, 1415 1617 years old for a lot of people. And the problem a lot of times is we stay in that mindset, we get stuck in that mindset, every job, even if you’re a general manager, we treat like it’s an entry level job. We continuously are trying to pay as little to overwork to basically try and turn us into bodies and hands. And that is a short sighted thinking mindset. We are in a cut and control mindset, we need to be in a growth and investment and abundance mindset. And that’s a really difficult thing. When we get trained at 1617 years old, that you’re only as good as your next plate up, smile, it’s part of your uniform, leave your shit at the door, we perpetuate these tropes that are self defeating. And we wonder why we get stuck there. There’s there’s an innate trauma that’s baked into this industry. And we pretend like it’s a badge of honor that that makes us this tough guy, tough guy mentality. And the reality is, we may work hard. But the amount of contribution that we make to the upside, or bottom line is very nominal. It’s very minimal. And it’s been created that way. I think it’s a microcosm of capitalism. It’s a microcosm of the way we treat each other and ourselves in society. And so we have to break that mindset. A lot of my work, really me is to be a hype man, for people like, Oh, I’m just a cook. No, you’re a cook. Like you are somebody who feeds another person, you think about the most loved people in your world. So many of us will go to the family dinners and things like that. And there’s this sense of, of memory, of nostalgia, of connection of being able to speak to people across barriers, whatever barriers racial age, anything language, yep. And food is essential to that. And we’re in a very unique business, Jeremy, right. We’ve talked about the people business, every business is a people business don’t care, we make sprockets, you need to be able interact with people, right? If we’re in the relationship business, and that is very unique. And no relationship was ever built by a service, a technology, a food, right, those are just the connective tissue. Those are the conduit for people, the mechanisms to make those able to interact, and in relationships that we have with ourselves, with our teams, with our business with our community are actually fundamentally way more important than the relationship that we have with what goes on the plate. Because if it’s only what’s on the plate, you’re commoditized. But if it’s more than what’s on the plate, if it’s the relationship that you create, then your value is exponential. And that’s the part we have not been able to get to is shifting that mindset. And so, again, I got a couple of things. But you want to hover there for a moment, because I, I see your reaction, important,
JJ
Jeremy Julian
23:14
what my response. And my response is, as part of why I love doing this podcast, and I think you do as well as, as the people that are subscribing, and are paying attention and are engaging with us are those people that recognize that it’s broken, and are trying to do better? And so the fact that you bring that up, and I know that that’s part of where I do want to go going forward, you know, is how did the podcast come about? Not just the pandemic, but really, what is your passion? And why are you doing it? Because it takes it takes time, it takes energy. But really, it’s those people that are trying to break the mold, the people that are trying the new things I know, you know, your your latest venture is awesome. And I love the people that you’re doing it with because I’m just like, these people are constantly I remember talking with Sean a couple of years ago, he’s like, No, we’re going to build a media company that just happens to have a restaurant or not, you know, and I’m like, Dude, that is so innovative. And so he’s like, that is where people are living. And then they just happen to try my food so that I can feed my family. And so kind of a kind of a cool, you know, just kind of a kind of a cool idea. And so I guess the other piece that I would I would expound on is oftentimes because of the mentality that we have lived with the that you’re working 100 hours a week, you’re tired, you go out drinking after your shift, you know, as you talked about here, hanging with the same people, you get stuck in this cycle where there isn’t a ton of time and space. You’re not rewarded for coming into work and coming up with a new idea to talk about, Hey, have you thought about cleaning it this way? Have you thought about changing the service style? Have you thought about, you know, integrating to a third party delivery and taking this piece of technology because my friend is doing it and look at how well it’s working. We don’t get rewarded from that off Sometimes for me growing up in the restaurants and, and then since then working in technology, it’s like shut up, sit down and do your job, I don’t want your ideas, I think is also the mentality that keeps us where we’re at. So I guess, also, I threw a couple ideas at you tell me what your thought on that
JC
Jensen Cummings
25:14
I’m going to run with it, I like it. So. So part of the part of the issue there is, again, we we are looking at labor as a cost versus an investment. And so already, when you’re there, the business model is to exploit that labor to the degree that you will reach the margin that allows you to barely survive as a business. This is already a downward spiral. And so again, we have to kind of shift that. And so one of the other things that I talk about a little bit just to get people to understand, like where we’re at right now, the restaurant, business, as you mentioned, hasn’t changed. And the restaurant business is unique. Because it’s a relationship business, the restaurant business is also unique, because you are in fact, in two completely separate business models, you are in manufacturing, and you are in retail. And you look at any downtown corridor where a lot of the restaurants I had where there’s a nice shoe boutique over here, and then a clothing store there. And you see those because they’re able to pay $44, a square foot triple net, yep, you don’t see the shoe factory in that downtown corridor. But we are creating food, which is a manufacturing process, to then sell it in a retail setting, which is your dining room, your bar. And so what happened and I blame myself a lot, the chef driven restaurant actually create a lot of the inequity that we see today, the food network effect from about 2000 When I started in the industry, and again, we went from being those outcasts, outcasts are the cool kids, we didn’t know how to handle it. I didn’t know how to handle it well. And then we became the establishment. Now we wonder why quote unquote, kids these days want to have nothing to do with us. We’re the new cubicle, unfortunately. So what do we do next? And so when you think about that business model, the chef driven restaurant, well, what happened in the restaurants that I created, my kitchen got bigger and bigger, and had more and more expense in it both from a from a startup and investment when building new restaurants, which I did a lot of as well as ongoing operational costs. And when all of a sudden a restaurant whose kitchen maybe was you know, you laugh at those small restaurants where the kitchen is like, you’re like, how do you cook in this thing? It’s a it’s a shoebox. The reality is, that’s the only way that they could make money in those models. And when your restaurant became 42% of your entire footprints, well, then all of a sudden, the economics don’t work. And so we started put undue pressures on things like that. And then all of a sudden, it was a popularity contest. And so our restaurants, they had to look super fucking cool, Jeremy. So I needed, I needed those light fixtures that were reclaimed from the Titanic, that were $2,500 a pop, wow, look how cool they were. And we put the same light bulbs as we did in the ones that cost $12.52. And all of a sudden, we’re spending a million dollars on this restaurant. And now we go, oh, wait a minute, we didn’t budget very well. We didn’t manage that we didn’t think about and start a separate bank account for our first three cycles, four cycles of payroll for taxes, right for being able to have some runway. And now we’re like, Okay, wait, we need to cut and control, what am I going to do? I’m going to pay that line cook $11 instead of 15. Now your most valuable asset, which is your people, they’re the ones that are going to deliver on the brand promise that you make day in and day out. You’re cutting the ones that sewing them, and they’re the ones that suffer and the reality is, your restaurant suffers because when we have 72% average turnover rates, we have 10 years of 56 days on average, we’re up over 130% It’s ridiculous. And you wonder why the 1000s of people that I interact with across the industry. When I ask why don’t they want to work in restaurants give me all these reasons and then I tell operators this and they give me all the excuses why they’re wrong. I tell them like it’s right there. The numbers are right there in front of you. You need to start to look the only way that you can solve a problem is acknowledging that you have one and we still Jeremy we still are not doing that even though the pandemic now has accelerated and exposed so much. So many people today are trying to be like alright cool that passed. Now let’s go back to business as usual. And that will never happen. And restaurant work and we even
JJ
Jeremy Julian
29:54
those that the more restaurant people I talk to you they’re like I have choices. They didn’t I mean they didn’t feel like they had choices before. independant exactly your point, if there’s any one thing that you take away from this as a restaurant owner, right now is your staff is your asset that you’re selling, you know, as part of your brand promise, and you have to make sure that you take care of them. So I appreciate you bringing that up. Because I don’t think it’s said enough. I don’t think people hear it enough where they go, Well, the pandemic is over, unemployment is up, they’ll come back, and they’ll work for crappy wages and, and, you know, go back to the shitty environment that I had before. And they’re not getting it, because there aren’t restaurants that are thriving. There are restaurants that are doing it well, at restaurants that have, you know, 10% turnover or less in certain environments, because they do the things that they need to do to take care of the people that build their brand for them.
JC
Jensen Cummings
30:45
Yeah, it’s, it’s going to be a very different industry. And look, I am trying so hard to help my contemporaries, the ones that that gave me jobs, the ones that I worked with side by side, the ones that I helped build restaurants with the ones that have been compatriots for, you know, decade, 15 years, 20 years. And the reality though is that adage, old dogs new tricks, it’s, it can be pretty real. There’s a lot of people that are stuck. And they have done things one way and only one way, and they will die on that hill. And it breaks my heart because I see it time and time again. And they come to me and they ask me these questions, and they do not like the answers that I give them. And then they say, Well, I must be wrong, or, or these kids these days must be wrong to you, you can say that all you want that who’s going to break the cycle, the 22 year old kid, or you who were looking to as a leader, as a pillar of this industry, to be the model for what we all know is possible, what has been exposed as necessary. And what we all want for a better future for this, this industry. And so that’s the part that’s really hard when we go into these consulting projects, it’s why I had to make a decision that we only work on on new projects is pretty much all that we do because I want to try and build it right from the beginning. It’s really difficult to go in and fix a broken situation. Mostly though, it’s not the systems, it’s not like I can’t get my food costs in line, I can’t get my labor costs in line, it’s like you can’t get your own self in line is mostly what it is, they’re having the issue. It’s not the mechanisms that are in place, it’s a lot of times not even their people that they have in place. It’s it’s those pieces. And then it was also another level like we’re we’re pretty expensive, you know, like, I get paid almost as much an hour as my lawyer, that’s bananas as somebody who’s just a dumb cook. That the reason is, if you don’t invest in it, you don’t actually value it, which is why people who work in the industry, you don’t value us, you pretend like you do, and you throw us some pizza parties, you know, whatever your version of that is, you don’t actually value us because we value what we invest in. And so now our clients have to be investing at least a million most are two to $5 million. And the reason is, they take everything we say very seriously, that’s the total investment. That’s not what they’re investing with us. But now I’m going from like, Oh, I got paid $500 for a menu, then $500 For every dish on the menu to like, you know, now we have clients that are 150 $350,000 clients to be able to get their restaurant up and running. And that’s a big investment. What it allows us to do is to be able to test a lot of the modality and the new programs that we’re creating, and be able to test them with some real investment behind it. And so then that’s why I’m so dedicated, giving away so much free content, because I really want to help my young dumb self as as a kid, like, what what can I have learned and pass on. But what I recognize is, I can’t afford that service. So that’s why we kind of made that shift. And that’s why we started the media side. So I was like, I need a good way to screen these things from the mountain that people can find have access to so that they can figure out how to take that similar path, even though they may not have that level of investment into you know, their their project that went from a pop up to a food trucks. And now they found a brick and mortar, they signed a really bad lease and now they’re on the hook for that and they go down that whole path. So that’s
JJ
Jeremy Julian
34:29
the day that consulting business. They’re paying you for the 30 years, 25 years of experience that you have and the family and the connections that you have to be able to accelerate that not necessarily for the you know, the minutes that you’re spending building the menu item or whatnot,
JC
Jensen Cummings
34:45
and I don’t even talk anymore, Jeremy, I now bring in chefs, I’m like, I love the concept of menus. I’m like I’m not even that good at like recipe development anymore. To be honest, we have guys like Matt White, who comes in a lot of projects and different people. So I’ve had to recognize that all the hats that we wear, that was the crutch, unnecessary I get it, man, do I get it necessarily just to survive sometimes in this industry, I completely understand it. And so you get stuck there. But now I’m like, Yeah, I’m a really good cook. But I also am potentially better at leading this enterprise, and being the voice and connecting with people and asking enough stupid questions till I find smart answers and being able to turn that in the way that we create process models for the future of the industry. So I even had to take some minutes and be like, You really suck at these things. And even these things that you’re good at aren’t actually the best use of your time. And that is really hard for us in this industry.
JJ
Jeremy Julian
35:46
Yep. know for sure. Well, especially because everybody likes the applause to like you said earlier, when you create that dish, and you make it and everybody’s like, Oh, my gosh, this is so good. You want the clause building, building a building a labor model that’s going to help them save, you know, $100,000 in the year doesn’t get you the same applauses as creating some new
JC
Jensen Cummings
36:05
condition that affects
JJ
Jeremy Julian
36:08
sexy work. Yes, yeah. And at the end of the day, is probably adding more long term value to that business, but, but it’s not nearly as sexy. So. So let’s flip to the podcast. you’ve alluded to it a couple of times, we talked about it at the intro. Why? What can people expect when they jump on the podcast? Is it just you rambling on about your days drinking too much back in the restaurants? Is it? You know? Sometimes, maybe, now, but but for those that are unfamiliar, talk to him a little bit about the podcast? What can they expect? And and why should they subscribe? Why should they jump on the podcast? What kind of things do they need to look for?
JC
Jensen Cummings
36:44
Yeah, so best serve podcast, you’re gonna head over Facebook, or we have YouTube or my personal LinkedIn for any of the the tech audience stuff. So they a lot of good content on LinkedIn now. So you can find the podcast there. And what it’s really about is, is the stories that connect to the solutions, right, so there’s a lot of story driven podcasts. And I love them. And there’s a lot of solution driven podcasts, and I love them. And what I wanted to try and do is really, like connect those dots. So for me, every solution comes from a story from my own story, from somebody who’s a pro at it from somebody who was at the top and fell on their face, anything that allows us the opportunity to understand the context of that solution, because here’s the thing, you know, from the technology side, 90% of technology is lost in the adoption phase apps, because we’re Luddites and restaurants, we don’t want anything to do with it. Like, I’m not interested in your perfect solution. Um, I’m taking the blue pill, I’m out of this matrix, like, I don’t want that. So we have to connect to humans, it has to be a human solution. Right? And so I’m always thinking about that. So I’m trying to say, here’s a situation that you’ve probably dealt with, why do I know that because I fucked it up myself. And so here now is the person or the solution, or the the path forward. So that’s been an important part of besser podcast. And then from there, it runs the gamut, you know. So there’s, you can find on Facebook, there’s some playlists that we kind of organize to help. Like, if you just are interested in some of these things, can help you kind of kind of scaled down to the amount of content because we have so much content, it would take you forever to go through. And that’s the best serve podcast. And that’s why it’s valuable because we learn through stories as humans we have all time and will for ever. And so that was always important to me. Because I felt like a lot of the podcasts I was listening to. I love the stories. I love the solutions. I was maybe missing some of that. That connective tissue there in the middle as I was missing that little bit of palate cleanser that had me go okay, I understand the transition here. I buy into it. Because on paper, I know that your solution is amazing. Your technology is incredible. Of course it’ll help my business. I don’t care. I don’t care. So how do we get people to understand that so that’s besser podcast, Facebook’s where we’re most active. And anybody who follows the podcast pretty much to other things. They follow me personally because all I do is ask questions. I’m just so unbelievably curious. And I want to include as many people into the conversation as possible. So we have a great community there on on Facebook through that. And then we’re we’re making content for Tiktok for LinkedIn, for YouTube, for Instagram, as well. And then we have a group the best served Facebook group as well as a great place I post every single day in there and today what was today Today was a quote from Pele, best soccer player potentially ever until Messi maybe just solidified himself as such for a the World Cup fans out there and just passed away sadly. And you know, he had a quote talking about it’s not about winning. It’s about how you play After you lose basically what it said, and so you get a lot of that I’m trying to keep us motivated, and keep us focused and things like that. So you get that kind of stuff from me asking questions trying to find out, you know, what’s, what’s a reason to be proud to work in a restaurant was another question I asked this week. So it gets people in the restaurant side engaged. So that’s kind of the best sort of podcast side. And yeah, it’s been, it’s been a lot. We’ve put out a lot of content. And we have, you know, people doing video editing for us now and running the podcast. And it’s been really cool how it’s grown organically.
JJ
Jeremy Julian
40:34
Yeah, I guess what’s been your hardest, hardest transition to go from being in the restaurants to now being a media guy? That’s a consultant that, you know, Hey, how was that transition been for you, for your family? For your
JC
Jensen Cummings
40:47
for sure. It’s imposter syndrome. Like who am i It’s is to consult or charge this amount of money, who am I to come out here and tell you what to do when I couldn’t even hack it myself? Quote, unquote, right? I burned out myself, going through that same business model, going almost seven years without taking a single sick day, because I was going to be the toughest I was going to show up first, and leave last. And there’s there’s some nobility in that. And there’s also toxicity. And it’s a burnout fast. And so you know that imposter syndrome is a real thing. I’m going to tell you how to run your restaurant. I couldn’t run my restaurant, I had to get out of the restaurant industry, because it was it was killing me. And so that’s, that’s a challenge for sure. And so I don’t know that anybody needs to listen to the answers that I have. That’s not actually what I do. Mostly, I ask questions, to unearth the answers that were always there that you never thought of, that are emerging, that are gathered insights from so many people, my ability to pattern recognize is the thing that I hold in the highest regard, of being able to say, Oh, I see what’s actually going on here. When you’re stuck in your four walls, it’s hard to see that. So now, you know, I still have a little bit of ego, Jeremy, I’m not gonna lie, I still want to go to the Hall of Fame. But I’m going to do it from the sidelines as a coach, so to speak, as a coach, a therapist, a cheerleader, not on the fields. And so that’s been a big shift. Now the internet, oh, man, I love being able to Jeremy, I’m in my basement right now. And we’re going to be connecting with people all over the country, we have people all over the world that connect with our content, our ability to do that is amazing. Like, I’m so proud of that. And to have conversations with people in Italy and Australia, in Mexico in London, that say, we have the same issues. Wow, there’s there’s so much more that connects us than separates us. But now we got some work to do. So what do we do about that now that we’re connected, and I think being able to figure out how to take that action. That’s what that’s what keeps me up at night. That’s why I wake up at 230 in the morning, I’m the earliest riser around.
JJ
Jeremy Julian
43:01
Wow, okay, I thought I was early. My kids give me a hard time because I’m up at 430 in the day, and they’re like, you know, you have a choice to sleep in. And I’m like, Yeah, but I like it up really because I well, I have four kids a longtime listeners know. And probably the hardest thing for me is they love to, I’ve got one that’s driving and another one that’s starting to drive is they’ll turn on my podcast in their car, just a mess with me because I can’t stand listen to my own voice when I do these things so so I see any you guys out there any in the audience set out a trade show, you can you know, if you ever want to mess with me, just give me a little little snippets of my own stupid
JC
Jensen Cummings
43:34
name. I have a fun kid, we have an eight year old son, a six year old son, and a one year old daughter. So we’re knee deep in as well. And that’s why I get up so early is the world is quiet. My mind. And my hands have been so busy for so long, just grinding and hustling and all of these things that I recognize. There’s such value in quiet like a lot of the restaurant people will know this, one of my favorite shifts was the Sunday morning, I would come in because we weren’t open for lunch. And I would set up the whole kitchen by myself. I love that it was just me. And I would, you know find ways to be just a little bit quicker, I’d be playing music, I’d be doing whatever. And so it’s like that I get this quiet time where I can. I can put things out in the world so that when the day comes from seven to nine on my calendar is blocked out. It’s called dad life. And I’ll hang with the kids. I’ll get them ready to you know, take the boys to school today. And they’re important. Like they were a big part of the why. When I looked at them I didn’t mention this before but it’s important when I was thinking about this industry. And after I burnt down I was like what do I do next and how do I contribute? You know, I tried a lot of different things. I had a guy called beer and food company we did collaboration beers. I had a fermentation company that we did for a little while like I tried some different stuff because I was like do I want to actually be in the room restaurant industry. And I looked at my kids and said, Would I want them to be the sixth generation, our family part of this industry? I said, Oh, shit, no, like, Absolutely. Are they even doing it now? So I was like, do I walk away and I tried a little bit, and I recognized now I need to triple down and figure out how I can leave the industry better than I found it. What can we again, as elders, as leaders in this industry, do to leave it better than we found it so that there’s a legacy for my kids with no pressure for me to be able to be the sixth generation, if they choose to, is a really powerful motivator. So if that means I gotta get up at 230 in the morning, and then be able to hang with them. And then the rest of the day, I’m very reactive to clients to, to opportunities, I get to be on a podcast with Jeremy Julian, like, those are amazing things. And I get to be very responsive to my team. If I don’t respond to an email, within three hours, 24 hours, I’m probably lying in a ditch somewhere, because I believe, in communicating with people and acknowledging people so, so deeply, it’s pretty important to me. So that’s been a big shift for me, my family. And, you know, it’s allowed us a lot of opportunities over a really difficult time over the last few years for sure.
JJ
Jeremy Julian
46:10
That it has been, and probably the most fun that I’ve had on the podcast is talking to those people that have made it through and like, changed, change themselves so much, because I think that, you know, the only thing that’s constant is change. And at the same time, the change that was thrust upon us in the industry was not something that he was asked for sure. But you had to adapt. And I think the one thing that, that I think we both know about the restaurants is how resilient they are. They’re gonna figure it out, right? Truly. So for those that want to get connected, how would you I mean, what would you say I’m a restaurant owner, I’ve just heard all of what you’ve said, I’m dealing with some of the same problems. I need somewhere to commiserate, I need somewhere to understand. How do I get myself out of this and build a better mousetrap so that I can have the life that I once had before the pandemic or whatever that might look like? Where do they go? How do they engage? What’s the best next step for our listeners that are out there that want to want what you have want to understand what you can provide to them? Whether it be the podcast, the the consulting firm, any of that kind of stuff?
JC
Jensen Cummings
47:13
Yeah, I think if you’re saying I need a practical solution right now for my business, you go to angry all of consulting.com is the place to go and you book some time with myself. This is part of Andrew par. I think that’s key. I think if you’re trying to find community find stories, like connect with people, like hit me up on social media, that’s the best way you reach out you direct message me, I will hit you back, you comment on a post, I will like it i will reply back that is fundamentally important to me. So if you’re on Tiktok, you go check out Jensen Cummings best serve podcast, their restaurant, Idea Factory, check that out there as well engage with that content there. If you’re on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube, like engage with the content there. Again, Jensen Cummings, besser, podcast, restaurant, Idea Factory, those are kind of the three places you want to connect with. And that’s really important. I had a conversation today with Chef Ben Randall out in Chicago, who commented on one of my posts and said, who’s who’s having trouble with hiring, who’s willing to give me some of the details and who’s willing to hear some things they don’t want to hear. And he had a really great comment to it. And I have a 14 minute call. I love being able to get as much done in 14 Minute Calls most people do in 45 minutes. It’s my favorite, I want to bring immense amounts of value. And I know that if we have 14 minute call, I can schedule a bunch of those a week. So I have several 14 minute. They’re called meetings of the minds. And we got to talk. And I learned three new things about about hiring and the hiring process is fundamentally important to me, because we’ve been so bad at it for so long. And it’s one of the things I think is going to spin off as its own service. For what we do is hiring I mean, it doesn’t mean that we’re recruiter, it means shifting the modality in which we communicate, engage and interact and the processes that we have in place because they’re so bad currently. Yeah. And so I learned three new things in a 14 minute call. That, to me is the most profound thing that I can do, as somebody who’s trying to contribute to the industry is be able to be
JJ
Jeremy Julian
49:11
available. I love it. I love it. Because all too often we keep trying to do what we’ve always done, and it’s not working anymore. So you get what you always got. Yep, exactly. Well, I thank you for what you’re doing. Because I wouldn’t be here you wouldn’t be here if not for the restaurant industry, not only on this podcast, but but but man, you know, it’s given me a lot. And so for me, my impetus behind the podcast was to give back what I’ve gotten to those that are out there because you know what? Wallah you know, the Dave Ramsey thing you know, better than I deserve. Like, I’ve gotten more than I deserve, but at the same time, how do I give back to help others to be able to have this industry exist 3040 50 100 200 years from now, in a way that’s sustainable, that’s not burning people out that’s not killing people, that they’re able to put in tech that’s going to work Can and make their business better. So I appreciate, you’re gonna say,
JC
Jensen Cummings
50:03
I’m gonna correct you and say You do deserve everything you’ve got. And we all out here see you in the work that you’re doing. And it’s meaningful. And it’s important and it’s necessary. And there aren’t enough of us that are out there willing to put our own voices our own reputation on the line. I think it’s important I, you know, somebody told me there’s, there’s too many podcasts is like, what that’s like saying, there’s too many restaurants. And every flavor, every community, like every single street, if you have a street that’s, let’s say, has six 810 restaurants on it, right? It’s a little bit of a district there, you should have a podcast just to talk about what’s happening in that district, because there’s meaning and value in micro to macro communities. So there aren’t too many voices, if you post content, if you’re listening to this right now. And you go, Oh, you know what, I’m going to post a little piece of content I’m going to get on Tik Tok that I’ve been watching for a long time, and I’m posting a 32nd video about something that I believe to be true for myself in this industry. And you tag me on that I will amplify it 100% Believe in it, because they all deserve it. Their story matters just like yours, just like mine. Just like our cumulative story. It matters. So I appreciate what you’re doing. We all do. Sometimes the even the grind of podcasts and can feel like you’re you’re talking to a microphone. Nobody gives a shit we do.
JJ
Jeremy Julian
51:19
Yeah, well, I appreciate the accolades and I do also appreciate our listeners. I’ve got a lot of longtime listeners that that download every episode they comment they hit me up on social they talk to me at trade show. So for those of you guys out there that that listen every single episode, share it with your friends. Get it out there, gentlemen, I appreciate you spending time I can’t wait to be on your show and, and share a little bit of a little bit of my story with your audience as well. And for our listeners make it a great day.
I
Intro
51:48
Thanks for listening to the restaurant technology guys podcast. Visit restaurant technology guys.com For tips, Industry Insights and more to help you run your restaurant better
